Expert In You Podcast → on Knowing Your Purpose and Vision is Crucial for Success

Hey everyone I want to welcome you back to another episode of Expert in You Podcast and this week I am so excited for my guest it’s someone I’ve known for a very long time and she is absolutely fabulous she’s doing some big things out there in the corporate sector and her name is Judy Ryan

Judy welcome to my show thank you so much I really appreciate your invitation and it’s fun just to hang out with you I know and get to see you again so I’m going to do a quick introduction she’s got a lot of great things that she has done and so I I really don’t want to gloss over this part so Judy is the CEO of LifeWork Systems and she’s a recognized thought leader on applied behavior science that impacts deep culture change for exceptional outcomes she’s an award-winning author she’s a columnist a systems developer trainer keynote speaker and she is frequently interviewed on TV radio and podcast since 2002

Judy has been leading Innovation methods to favorably impact the most important aspect of any organization it’s people and she’s created digital scalable culture transformation systems and implementation framework we’ll talk more about what that all means and Judy’s purpose and I love this purpose is to create a culture in which all people love their lives who I would have to say I’m right there with you so Judy I’m so excited to have you here so thank you again for being here you’re welcome and you know what I I appreciate you loving that mission because I remember marketing people in the past saying to me oh you can’t tell business owners they need to give a darn about whether they’re people love their lives and I I said well that’s not the people I want to work with then yeah you know I love that you’re saying that because um I was just having a conversation with one of my clients this morning and we were talking about employee retention and what you know companies are struggling right now A lot of people are leaving and they’re creating their own businesses and retention is becoming a big problem and one of the things that can keep people in an organization longer is when people love their lives they love their job they’re happy right they have no reason to leave and how many employers don’t think about that or are not taking the steps or the actions to ensure that people are loving their lives they coming to work every day and I think that that’s where the shift is going to have to happen it is now an employees world not an employer world and I think people have to realize that couldn’t agree more I think a lot of leaders either were blind to what it’s costing them and it’s costing their people but they’re also um really starting to recognize that it is affecting their bottom line for those that are all driven by the the profitability and then I think what would be great is when they start to experience the shift because even though great resignation is called called the Great resignation it’s also called the Great reset and I like to think of it that way because what if it’s time it gives us the space and the circumstances so that we choose to reset and then maybe some of these leaders that thought it was sort of a nice to have to have their people happy start realizing it’s pretty great to have us all be happy you know and then it becomes a winning you know way no and I think you are you’re spot on in that and I think that that really it if people even if they are profit driven which companies are right and businesses um they you said you said it so well they don’t even have any idea what’s costing them and that it really does affect the bottom line and even just thinking about turnover you know I’ve dealt with a lot of businesses you know where they’ve had turnover and I can remember saying to to one of my clients at one time um so what kind of training do you do for your people or how do you help them grow as people and be happy and he said well we don’t really invest in that kind of thing and I said well why is that and he said well what if I put out all that money and then they you know they just leave and I said hm well let’s reverse that what if you don’t do it and they stay with you or those the people you want working with you it’s like it’s natural for you to see that like that’s what’s get them to stay not not investing in them is more likely to have them leave yeah absolutely absolutely and so I I love what you’re doing so how did you Judy you’ve been doing this since 2002 which is quite to run how did you get into this originally and I know that we know business evolves so I know that you’re in a completely different place now than when you were in 2002 but can you share a little bit of your journey and your story with us yeah yeah I mean I feel really lucky that I’ve kind of always had a passion for this work and I actually got started in it in the in the mid 80s which is going to really help how old I am I was in my 20s back then so um it was important to me because I Came Upon a psych ology model that not only helped me raise my children but it also helped me heal my own childhood and I would have to say most people think I have a pretty normal childhood but all of us have had various ways that we’ve been conditioned because of the way that we believe in how to raise children how to educate them how to uh build a Workforce you know that are really pretty harmful to all of us and a lot of people aren’t recognizing that so I learned about this model and I applied it in my early years as a parent educator so that’s how I applied the psychology then and then in 1998 I I quit a pretty lucrative career to go out on my own and do this work um and I did it under someone else’s company for about three years until I was ready to go out on my own and do my own version of you know what I was doing um so I feel fortunate that I’ve always had this passion to stop people from suffering a lot of people are suffering right now it’s very evident it’s almost like we’re alcoholic that needs to hit bottom all the way you know you know it’s kind of disappointing that we have to have so much suffering for people to start going we really need to change yes but I feel like I’ve been kind of out ahead of something preparing for it and um one of the things that I want to keep in mind that you want in this conversation is to help people that are trying to find their next steps find their way through and I I would say one of the most important things that someone can do is to really be clear about what at their highest level they want to cause like I called it Mission you know create a world where people love their lives if you know what that is then you can start aligning your values and your Visions with that and then you will see that your vision start just coming true without even getting to how am I gon to make that Vision come true right like I remember in the early days one of my Visions because I had done all this in parenting was to have other like what if I could help parents and they their teachers would also know this and the students would know this and the neighborhood would know this and the principal and this counselor would know this and so I wrote down a vision that I wanted to do it in that way as one of my Visions before I could even set any goals or anything um somebody from a school district said what would you do if if money was no issue and I was like oh I already wrote that down next thing I know she hands me an application for $300,000 Grant and says this is due in two days I love what you just said write it down if I like it I’ll on it now I I know that sounds like I’m talking crazy but I really believe there’s power when our purpose our values and our vision are all lined up and I can tell totally agree yeah so I would say that’s number one and a lot of people kind of look at that as oh that just sounds all Airy fairy it’s not Airy fairy no it is not yeah so that would be my number one I love that you’re talking about that because I’ve worked with you know I work with a lot of coaches and Consultants to help them structure their business and and be successful in their business and the one thing that I see over and over again in fact I my last book I wrote about this is that people are not aligned with what they’re really good at their expertise the things that light them up the things that make them happy I believe that passion is great you need more than passion right it still has to be a viable product or a viable service that people want but what I see a lot of times is when people aren’t successful and you said it at the very beginning and it might have even been in our conversation before we started recording about pushing a boulder up a hill if you’re not working where your values your everything is aligned there’s no there’s no ease to it it is like a constant struggle and people don’t realize that it isn’t it really is not woowoo There’s real truth to it and I think that the other thing is when you you said it too when you uh know what that vision is or or where you really want to go or what you want to accomplish you know your subconscious mind really does start working towards that that’s been proven so um so everything you’re saying saying is is so spoton and it’s so true what’s interesting about it though is we teach how to create your purpose values and Visions is one of our modules in our month program and that’s the month that everybody pushes back the hardest and I really am convinced that part of it is because uh there’s a quote by Maryann Williamson our deepest fear is not that we’re inadequate our deepest fear is that we’re powerful beyond measure it’s our light not our darkness that most frightens us and it goes on to a really beautiful conclusion but I really that in people I see people terrified to discover their purpose because they feel like it’s too hard to like what if I fail at it the reality is when we are our best selves we automatically cause that that purpose it’s not like we have to even it’s not effortful I remember one time my own coach asked me are you loving your life and in that moment there were two ways that I realized I wasn’t one was that I was not healthy the way I wanted to be and I’ve done a whole lot around that like I turned around diabetes I lost a bunch of weight I got some more to go but I and I was able to get off of five medications down to one you know like amazing good for you but I wrote that vision and it didn’t happen overnight I almost had to go to my own bottom where I got diabetes and I was like hell no sorry no that’s I said I want this to be organic and real okay well there’s me um but but the other thing I realized was I don’t like prospecting like I realized that when I go to these conferences and things that I was going to at that time I don’t want to be looking around the room going who am I supposed to convert here you know so I remember um my coach saying well why don’t you fire yourself from that and I was like oh my gosh I never even thought of that so I did and I felt literally like a person that had been leted out of jail and the very next time I went to a conference I said to the group because it was on intrinsic motivation and I said you know intrinsic motivation is loving what you do and who you are while you’re doing it and I told them about this you know thing about not loving being a prospector and I said so just all of you guys know if you want something from me you’re gonna have to come to me to get it because I’m not gonna be hunting you down you know like I think I got three new clients out of that crowd because my own energy was so released from h i don’t have to do that and and what resulted instead is I’ve discovered that I really love doing things in Partnership that I always look at I always say to people that are my partners you’re like the people that love to mingle at the party I’m the doctor in the corner that you send people over to so that when it comes to mingling I’m like I just freeze up you know I don’t you bring up such a good point too and that is to really work in your strengths and work in the things that you do love and you know there are certain things that drain our energy and then there are other things that pour into our energy and again it it’s not woooo we’re talking real stuff here you know and and um it it’s like when you work with a client that just drains you or you work with a client that you leave in your energized and you’re pumped and you’re so excited and and people know the difference right so I think everything you’re saying uh is really helpful for people to realize if there’s something you don’t like if there’s something that drains you or just doesn’t it’s just again pushing that boulder up the hill then you don’t have to do it you can Outsource it you can give it to you know you can bring someone else in and that’s an important piece of growing a business we don’t have to be phenomenal at everything you have to bring bring in the right people but say all of us use need people that we can lean on who help us see our blind spots because yes I even though I knew my purpose was to create a world where all people love their lives and I knew that included me I wasn’t remembering to say am I loving my life lately you know so having someone else remind me of that so having a purpose is so helpful because it it it allows us to self-reflect or to reflect on if I’m getting ready to write a nasty um response to somebody if I’m not saying in my head is this going to make you love your life is this going to make them love their life that’s going to inform me about what I do next so it it is so not woow woo but um it’s great to talk to you who believes in it I I just hope your audience says oh I want to check that out because it is nothing to skip over right no it is it’s such an important part of success I believe and and it’s also but to that point it’s also one of the reasons why sometimes people don’t get out of their own way it when they’re growing a business so there’s a difference in coaching and doing what we love to do and in growing a business right and so let’s talk about that a little bit because a lot of times people love what they do so much but and but that’s all they want to do and so that is not going to help them be successful probably in the long run or it’s not sustainable you really do have to think like you’re in business and you have to think like a business owner unless you’re just trying to make a little bit of an income but you’ve been at this since 2002 you’re successful I remember I hope if you don’t want me to say this on this uh podcast I will clip this part but I remember us having a conversation one time and you talking about getting an $800,000 client and that was so that was so great to hear because so often people stay in this very small mindset that big clients are now there of course I help people get you know big clients and and that was one of the things that um I loved about what you said because I think that shows people the possibilities and what is out there do you want to talk about that a little bit well one thing that I want to speak on that you said is you know you have to think like a business person you have to understand what a business needs so I’d like to just hit on that a little bit because I I kind of believe two things I believe what you’re saying 100% but I also believe that there are places where we aren’t it isn’t our strength so hold a vision for those things coming in where you don’t have them and you can’t see how to get them so for example one of my visions that I wrote for my business back in around 2014 was that I wanted to create an online Training Center because I wanted my company to have um scalable products and services that could really impact a lot of people like that was how big my vision was in my own mind and I thought well the only way I can do that is replicate what I’m doing in a in a lot of different parts of what I’m doing and then find people to be the mini mes you know so that it’s not all depending on me and I wrote a vision for that I wrote a vision for what the online Center would be and what I needed for it and all of that and before I could figure that out a similar thing happened like I said about that $300,000 Grant and by the way the $800,000 thing was also another thing that fulfilled that school reform Vision that I had both of those I’m mean I’m a for-profit company so I’m not even supposed to get grant money you know so I just think things happen in ways that we could never foresee so when I wrote my vision for uh my online Center at that time I didn’t know how I was going to you know get the modules made or any of it and so what I did was I happened to be putting in for different interns through internships.com which I would highly recommend that anybody listening to this looks into and it’s internships with an S and they’re more than welcome to reach out to me if they need to know how the heck did you fill this thing out because it’s a little bit complicated at first but I’ve had so many one time I had nine interns and somebody in one of the intern roles managing the other interns that’s how crazy it is and and sometimes you find really great ones like the one that came in for my online Training Center was a 42y old woman who had already been doing online training modules but her company would not let her use the ones she’d already built in her portfolio because she wanted to go out on her own so here’s a very sure person that had experience she also had um instructional design experience and she helped build out all my initial modules and taught me how to do them so that I could make modifications and all of that I mean who would have ever known that would have happened and then when I was in a position where I was doing a live program one day and I got invited to do a retreat and then I’m at this Retreat thinking it’s a little bitty small company because it’s only about eight women all wearing blue jeans at a little condo in the in Branson done my homework on the company at the end of the day it was a company that had been bought out by another company so they were suffering a lot of companies that are acquired or merged there’s a lot of stress in those kind of scenar so they were under a lot of duress and um at the end of this long you know day the the senior Vice President of Operations comes up to me she was the top person there and she says this is exactly what we need how do we do this for 1,200 people and I’m telling you my internal JW dropped to the floor because I did not know that they were a really big company bigger than even that they were about 18,000 and I said well funny that you should say that I just wrote this Vision I didn’t even have the Center built then and I said would you like to see this Vision that we have for how it’s going to all be laid out and she said absolutely and so working with that company with the executives is what funded our whole initial build of our online Center and I say that to you because again I wasn’t trying to be all things to all people I was putting my vision out there and the people started showing up I love it you know and sometimes they’ve shown up from internships sometimes they’ve shown up from other sources but I I love it and this is you this is one thing that people need to realize too is that you you said what it was you wanted you put that Vision in place but then you didn’t um what hang on one

second you know one of the things that I love about what you said too and I think it can be a real eye opener for people is that things evolve and we don’t often know how things are going to happen where they’re going to go and you know it’s there’s always like this sequence of events that get us to a completely different place so I love that you had the vision but you had no idea how that would happen and you know where that would come from and I think that part of that is being really open in your business I think you have to be open to receive I think you have to be openminded for where things you know will go and and not be so rigid that you don’t ever expand and you don’t ever grow with you I think a lot of people are even afraid to write a vision down because they feel like well I can’t even see how I would do that like as if they’re I don’t know I mean to me I know this is going to sound like a religious thing but God’s way bigger than we are absolutely there’s so much that can happen that we have we can’t even fathom it absolutely I would say most of the things that have happened in my business have happened without me trying to make them happen you know I mean I could not be more um in agreement with you I every business I built I’m on my sixth everyone I God has ordained the steps he I where I never where I dreamed about it and I thought about it and I wrote you know what I wanted I never knew how it was going to happen I never knew how it was going to get there I could I know as you could I could tell story after story after story after story about how God just worked things out it was just and it was you’re not having to be the one to figure it all out yes is part that you and I both have in common is we don’t hold it like well gosh now I have to figure all this out we don’t hold it that way and if nothing else if your people are listening write it as big as feels true like I remember one time I wrote that I want to be a $35 million company and somebody said to me why why stop at 35 million and I said because that’s as much as I can hold in my Consciousness right now you know and and it was so funny because the next day I met a company that was 35 million and they were going to a 100 million and I was like okay funny you know funny I know sometimes it does show up in a humorous way it does it was also like don’t worry once you get to 35 million I’ll get you to 100 Mill you know it was like that it was the message that I felt so I don’t think people should write just anything down it should be something they sincerely want right I sincerely wanted a scalable business I sincerely wanted parents teachers administrators and students all on the same page like you have to have your heart in it absolutely oh I love this I love this conversation so so how many uh hours do you work in your business or in as how many hours do you work a week um I work a lot of hours my kids are all grown um you know with the covid I’m I’m here but more than that I love it and you know I remember reading a piece about life work balance and it was really interesting and I loved it it said it isn’t about balancing the number of hours that you work and the hours that you rest it’s more like are you living these hours that give you fulfillment yes so I don’t even look at the clock most of the time and when I do I stop like if I there’s a part of me wearing down or feeling unconnected I know to stop one time one of my kids when she was living at home still she said to me Mom I wish I had your work ethic and I said you already do and she goes what do you mean and I said you stay up all night to play video games and she yes that’s that’s your passion yeah you find the right work you won’t be looking at the clock going when can I stop doing this you know oh you’re so right I I really believe that too and I think what you said a couple of great things in there one is when you are doing what you love what what is the saying you’ll never feel you’ll never work a day in your life I think there’s a lot of Truth to that um the other thing is that you said I know when to stop like I know when might energy there are so many times that I things I feel like I’m pushing that Boulder or things just aren’t lining up for the day or things just seem like they’re a struggle that day I just push away and I just take that take a step back and I take time and I think it’s important to recognize that as an entrepreneur so that you do so that you don’t keep pushing pushing pushing because really the results aren’t going to happen in those moments anyway no because you’re coming from a kind of a darker place or yes and it’s not aligned with who you’re designed to be um so I know that when I’m aligned with my work I have almost Boundless Energy for it and absolutely I think that’s really true for most people and when they’re and when they’re not feeling Boundless Energy the question they should be asking is do I need to change my life or my work or my relationship or something because there’s a misalignment there somewhere oh I think that’s so true and the other thing too Judy as you’re going through your business and you’re growing your business have you found that the level of clients that you’re working with now are completely different from when you started um a couple of ways I would say yes like I mentioned earlier I ask for people to come to me that are ready for this work because this work is not conventional and it’s even based on a very specific type of psychology and it’s it is actually where culture evolution is converging like somebody came to me one time who was a futurist and he said do you know that you’re doing a teal culture model I was like I don’t even know what that is and then I up on it and it’s exactly what we were already doing but we never called it teal we called it responsibility based culture but it was where poers decentralized and um people are sharing power and there’s a a purpose and value base and all these common factors so I know not everybody’s ready for the evolution of what’s going on in the world and some people are really hungry for it so what I noticed is that that’s a daily prayer for me is to send me the people who are ready so I’m finding more Readiness and I also have one of our Visions right now is to do our mission in partnership with other likeminded like-hearted thought leaders and change agents and some of them are showing up in ways that I had not anticipated like I thought that they were GNA um be partnered with me with my system and now some of them are saying well I’ll come in and build a program under your system that is for this audience that’s real thought leadership where we’re we’re we’re two people to working on something create a third thing that’s bigger than both of them I love that so yeah so I would say yes to most of that um that my customers are are becoming more conscious they’re showing up more conscious so are my partners um hopefully that continues no I love what you’re saying and I actually when you when you had filled out the form for this podcast so I could get all the information I needed from you uh one of the things that did jump out to me as you talked about employer employee you talked about leaders and um teams and and really um eliminating that better than you know I’m here and you’re here can you talk a little bit more about that because I think that’s such a valuable thing you know collaboration is such a big thing right now in business and I think that that’s an important you’re that’s really kind of what you’re talking about well it’s interesting because it’s not only um it’s not only what’s needed in business it’s what’s been needed in the world it’s even kind of yin-yang it’s even kind of male female uh collaboration needs to be part of the driven Focus like the driven focus is more that masculine side of us that’s all part of business but if we don’t temper it with um care and consideration for each other um I I see it in um people wanting to prioritize individualism over Community or community over individualism and it’s both needed right so um so what I see happening in the world right now is that you’re describing win lose and zero sum when you talk about people that are doing you know up down top down uh Power over power under Dynamics and and it’s both sides are part of that even the person playing power under is part of that problem and the person playing power over so all of that’s win- lose and what I see happening in the world right now is a lot of win lose energy is holding on with a death grip and then there’s other people that say I don’t like this win lose I don’t like this Zero Sum I don’t really believe anybody wins even the ones that look like they’re winning and they want something different but they haven’t yet landed on what that something is so I I hope I’m answering what you’re asking asking yeah that that’s I think that’s inbred in me I have an inclusive Gene I think in my body I’ve always wanted everybody that’s why my whole mission is about a world where all people love their lives and and you can’t really want that and want win lose you know so so for me um how do I help include the employer and the employee uh how do we include the adults and the children it’s it’s most people don’t think that’s even possible but it is oh I totally agree I think I think it is and I do think that is the direction of our culture and the direction of our world and I think also as we’re you know you talked about inclusion and as barriers are being broken down even worldwide and the internet has had a lot to do with that and technology has had a lot to do with that the really the entire world has shifted and there is more collaboration I think there is more empathy I think people are more open to building relationships I don’t think anything about putting another coach on here and having a conversation with them and letting them share their value and their expertise because there’s enough for everybody and then some right and so what when you talk about win lose I kind of think about competition versus collaboration yes and and that kind of gets down to the heart of what I do in my work but it’s applicable to all the business owners and leaders out there is that it’s about how do we shift into into the conditions and conversations in which people can be their best because what we do instead is we create all these conditions and conversations where people go into shame worthless worthlessness inferiority complex is what our psych you know our psychology model is based on and when that happens that’s where we have all this I’m right you’re wrong I’m good you’re bad I’m gonna do war with you I’m gonna do isms with you I’m G to even do it all to myself I’m going to do drug addiction obesity you know all kinds of stress and engagement all of that comes from that same core place and most people don’t realize what do we need to change so that that stops being what is driving everything like the reason you can say I don’t feel threatened by another consultant coming on here and I believe that there’s plenty is because you have a healthiness in your ego because the ego is a good thing if it’s a healthy ego and your healthy ego says I love creating other leaders I love creating other success and other people because when I do it for you I’m doing it for me you know like it we’re all one and so um I do think that it is a reflection of you’re not living in worthlessness or inferiority complex right most people don’t even know how much they’re mired in inferiority complex no oh that’s so true I that’s so true and I yes you’re you’re absolutely right too when you said oh you you love you know creating success in other people and you love doing that um I think about you know my husband says frequently you care more about your clients’s results than you do your own well yes to a degree I do still want to make a living but yes you know in your sixth business I don’t think it’s hurting you any that you love helping other people because and they’ve all been all except the first one have been helping other people I’ve been in coaching really even though this is my coaching and Consulting business since 2010 I’ve been coaching in all of my other business health clubs and weight loss and training and um I’ve been doing this for almost I don’t know 27 years or something so it’s ingrained in me and I’ve always wanted to help other people and help people be their best a core value for you it is it absolutely is another thing that makes it easy because it’s just who you are you know and and I love really when we identify our core values because it it just spurts us up to like our best yes absolutely and it feels very natural for us too we don’t really have to work at it it’s just something we do and um oh my goodness this has been such a great conversation I we’ve gone longer than I actually thought we would but this was so good I wish we could could go even longer you have so much value I think we just need to connect more as well I think so I feel the same this has really been great no I love it so okay give two great uh tips for people building a Consulting and coaching business practice company whatever you want to say what would be two of the most valuable things you feel I know we’ve shared a lot of gold here but can you can you sum up a couple of great tips well I know when you asked that on the form I put them down thinking you were asking like what are things that have worked for you but I think these could work for other people so I’m going to say this I remember one time I was at an e fore meeting which was a networking groupwork group and there was somebody that came in and had this big long form of all these questions around marketing and I remember being like so many I have going off in my head oh I didn’t know I was supposed to have a written marketing plan this was years and years ago I didn’t know I was supposed to have this and and it really convicted me so I went home and I thought you know what I’m going to do I’m going to create this same sort of a survey assessment very detailed asking people questions about their culture practices because so we have this survey now that it’s a really valuable tool because when the people take it they’re not even aware of how much awareness they’re going to get from the questions and then like they might be going through a list of 29 challenges and they’re checkbox in them and all of the sudden they’re like man I’m check boxing a lot of these challenges you know and even that is like a wakeup call and then they’re check boxing like I want these desired behaviors in my workplace but I don’t have them like do we have no gossip NOP don’t have that one you know and so the first part is that it teaches them who they are it teaches it’s like when you get your blood work back and you’re like oh gosh I have high cholesterol I have a fatty liver I have this I have that and you didn’t even know you didn’t even know I know yeah it it can be Bliss at times but then it also gives us a really rich starting place to talk to them because in the olden days when we had sales calls between people we spent a lot of time getting to know what their problems were and all that we just kind of shorthand that by having people give us all that detail so that we sit down with them they’re ready to talk about all of it and so I would recommend that whatever business you’re in whether you make a small survey or a long survey make sure that your um intention is to wake people up to what they may not know that they don’t know ask them the right question ask them the right question we just recently took our survey which was designed for one executive and we made it so that it could get a minimal amount of feedback from all of the people at the management level all of the people at the staff level so that when we send our free report to the senior Executives um we can give them oh and by the way your management level their top three challenges that they all agree on is this and the top three challenges for your Frontline staff are these things so that because a lot of times what happens is the Frontline staff don’t even feel heard by the Executives and by torsa so it it creates some awareness organizationally that’s one tip for sure okay well I want to just interject to that because oh my goodness that’s that is gold gold gold one of the things I talk about is before I get on before I get on you know a sales call right with with someone I really I I really kind of put them through the grinder and I ask questions and I’ve had people get on calls and say oh my gosh just filling out your form made me realize how much I don’t know and how much I need and so it really is about um it’s a it’s really letting them it’s uncovering for them what their needs are versus you pushing and saying you need this you need this discovery yes it it is and they are selling themselves it’s it’s like really they your form your survey your assessment whatever is pre-selling your services without you really having to do the work um such a powerful tip thank you thank you for sharing that I hadn’t thought about that all right what else do you have for us um I’m trying to think of what I wrote on the form now I don’t know if it applies because I can’t remember it um um I would say use interns I would say that a great beginning they don’t like I’ve had PR interns uh social media interns marketing interns I had recently I got a data scientist intern I didn’t even know what a data scientist was until um I’ve had uh phone app developers because we’ve had you know phone apps built there’s almost everything that you could want is available and and sometimes you don’t get great people but a lot of times you do that’s great and are they paid in turns or are they not our ours are usually not when we’ve used them it’s in a situation with our budget’s already so stretched we’re we’re just giving them the experience and a lot of them love that because they have to do it for school for college or they have to do it because their switching careers and they need some real world experience on their resume so um you can pay them that’s even a better thing if you want to but we have found like there’s just so many because of pmic and um so when it when we had the uh recession there were a lot of interns and then when everything got better there weren’t a lot of interns so sometimes it’s kind of dependent on what’s going on around you yeah I love that you brought that up because it it is something that I suggest when when I’m especially when I’m working with like small businesses and also when I was building businesses I used interns a lot I would go through the college and get interns and I have to say some of my best employees that later became employees came because they were interns for me first and it’s kind of like now I did pay my interns but it was you know you don’t have to pay them at the same rate because they’re learning and they’re and so you can virtually I mean you can basically train them for less money and then you can bring them on as as an employee and they’re already trained so it’s very powerful you’ve already screamed them you already know they’re hardworking and that their values fit your culture and all of that yeah absolutely I really recommend that I think it’s a game changer for some people that are still like maybe their early days or something that’s great what was that website again that you’ve used it’s called internships and if you don’t put the S on the end it won’t take you to the right place and then when people go on internships.com they they get to a site called Che and it’s really for students that are looking for internships but there’s a little button you can push for I’m an employer okay and it takes you through that process but if anybody’s listening and they want that they can reach out to me and I’ll send them in a written form how I fill out those forms so that they know how to do that and don’t have to like just try to figure that out okay well we’ll put all of your information and how people can connect with you of course Judy is on LinkedIn um I don’t know if you’re on Facebook or not Judy but I know she’s big on LinkedIn and she you can find her there um but we’ll put everything all of her information in the show notes and um you’ll be able to reach out to her and get a hold of her and and just connect with her she is such you can hear she is such a wealth of knowledge not just building her own success but just what she pours into other people and just her heart and her love for what she does you can hear her passion you can hear um how brilliant she is and how passionate she is about what she does so Judy thank you for what you are doing out there in the world I love it and I I’m blessed to know you I wish we had more time that we could connect and um but you’re just doing some great things and it it’s been such an honor to have you on this show a sh thank you and I feel the same about you and I feel very grateful that we had this exchange it was really fun and thank you thank you so much I think you’re brilliant oh well thank you I appreciate that so see there’s no competition you don’t have to compete right um so I love this but thank you for being here and everyone thank you for being and being here and tuning in to another episode and until next week God bless you you have an amazing day bye-bye